"I'm not really interested in how Bach played his music" says pianist playing Bach

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by Despina41

I agree that declaring oneself to be more important than the composer is no good, but that seems what most pianists are doing these days. We have all ranted about this elsewhere.

However, you can tell me the exact metronome marking for a sarabande, yes?

Ok, ok, I'm obviously in a grumpy mood this morning.

But the "authenticity" debate is so old, I thought the concept had been beaten to death. "We can never know exactly what the composer intended." isn't that a given? We can try to reconstruct it according to what surviving evidence there may be. But anyone attempting to "reconstruct" a performance practice has to be fullly aware of all the value judgments associated with proudly labeling themselves as "Authentic."
"I used a mordent here, where you used some ornament that is in no treatise of the day. You are a failure! HAH!" I think this is silly.

But this is really revolving, as you say, around attitude. If you did detect some arrogance there, fine. I posted the Yuja Wang interview because I find her infinitely worse.

I mean, the first question (and Alexis Bloom is no better) is:

AB:"When you play do you want people to say, 'oh, that was a fantastic Yuja Wang piece,' or 'That was a fantastic Prokofiev piece'?
YW: Every piece I play, I have to add my own voice to it...my own interpretation, whatever it's called.... so whether they're here to hear Prokofiev or me, they'll get my own point of view.

There you go.

[ReinerTorheit]

It doesn't have to be this way, of course.

I can't say I would usually go to piano recitals of Bach's music. But 3-4 months ago I went to a Russian Philharmonia gig, conducted by Dmitry Jurowsky, and the highlight of the program was a big soviet warhorse piano concerto, with Gindin doing the honours.

By way of an encore Gindin played a movement from one of the French Suites. But it was flawless in every way - each ornament subtly executed, charming variations performed on the repeats (CPE suggests that a performer who cannot embellish the repeats is a 'poor musician'). We happened to be guests of another rather excellent pianist (the Chief Coach at the Bolshoi right now), and she nudged me saying - "Look - no pedal! Amazing, eh?". The legato was obtained entirely from his flawless right-hand technique.

I actually enjoyed rather more than the soviet stuff

There's really no excuse for ignorance

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by ReinerTorheit

It doesn't have to be this way, of course.

I can't say I would usually go to piano recitals of Bach's music. But 3-4 months ago I went to a Russian Philharmonia gig, conducted by Dmitry Jurowsky, and the highlight of the program was a big soviet warhorse piano concerto, with Gindin doing the honours.

By way of an encore Gindin played a movement from one of the French Suites. But it was flawless in every way - each ornament subtly executed, charming variations performed on the repeats (CPE suggests that a performer who cannot embellish the repeats is a 'poor musician'). We happened to be guests of another rather excellent pianist (the Chief Coach at the Bolshoi right now), and she nudged me saying - "Look - no pedal! Amazing, eh?". The legato was obtained entirely from his flawless right-hand technique.

I actually enjoyed rather more than the soviet stuff

There's really no excuse for ignorance

As a harpsichordist, of course I don't use pedal because it feels unnatural in Bach. But I don't complain about pianists and their attempts at getting legato with pedal. It's perhaps more annoying to me when they overarticulate in an attempt to recreate the natural detached sound of the harpsichord. "Get a harpsichord already!!"

Most Bach on the piano is just too affected anyway. Listen to this nonsense:


Something to be said for just letting the music play itself....

[marquis66]

As a composer, I can only say that I definitely want performers to interpret my work... but there are right interpretations and wrong ones, and only I get to decide that

Let's not give "historically imformed performance" more weight than it's worth, though.

[Delicious Manager]

Originally Posted by ReinerTorheit

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...0,863521.story

They really don't come stupider than this

I would say it is more arrogant than stupid. It is all very well to argue that "It's an entirely different world than the world that he [Bach] lived in", but it is THAT world and THAT sensibility that so influenced the way Bach wrote his music. To ignore this is to miss and lose some of the character and nature of the music. Surely it is very conceited to say (and I paraphrase) "I don't care what Bach meant, I am going to force my own musical view on this music."

I have heard Dinnerstein's Bach - it is mannered, distorted and romanticised in a way that simply corrupts the music. Bach didn't even write for the piano (he did try an early Cristofori one, but apparently didn't much care for it) and so to treat Bach's music as if it was written for a modern grand piano is just ridiculous (it is the WRONG INSTRUMENT for a start).

[ReinerTorheit]

Originally Posted by Delicious Manager

it is THAT world and THAT sensibility that so influenced the way Bach wrote his music. To ignore this is to miss and lose some of the character and nature of the music. Surely it is very conceited to say (and I paraphrase) "I don't care what Bach meant, I am going to force my own musical view on this music."

[ReinerTorheit]

Originally Posted by Despina41

Most Bach on the piano is just too affected anyway. Listen to this nonsense:

Actually I quite liked that Comparatively speaking. At least it's rooted in some kind of HIP approach

I always bring up my favourite anecdote of Handel in Italy, and how he gave the orchestra leader a tongue-lashing - plus a demonstration of how to bow it, with Handel siezing the instrument to show him how - when they couldn't play French music properly.

Handel subsequently realised he'd possibly been rude, and asked the Leader if he was going to stick around in the rehearsal - the second half would be led by Corelli, who was going to unveil some new works.

"Yes, I shall. For Corelli - it is me. I am Corelli." replied the Leader.

[Despina41]

Originally Posted by ReinerTorheit

Actually I quite liked that Comparatively speaking. At least it's rooted in some kind of HIP approach

I'd rather have Russians playing melodic, Romantic Bach than people haphazardly changing articulations on every 2-bar repeated unit trying to impress me with their musical "Education" or "Technique" or whatever it is. I keep getting distracted by the interpretation. Dislike!

[periodinstrumentfan]

Originally Posted by Despina41

Most Bach on the piano is just too affected anyway. Listen to this nonsense:


....

I don't know how a learned should listen to Bach but i'm confused with his playing. ... m(_ _)m

[Melanti]

Originally Posted by ReinerTorheit

Specialists in historical dance can do so fairly accurately Because the steps only work at the right speed

The traditional Sarabande is in 3/2 or 6/4 and one of my all time Favourites comes from a superb Telemann Suite in Gmajor called(By Pisendel most probably) "La Bizarre" It has a remarkable procession,or Suite de Danses, full of Fantasy & Wonders, a musical Tour de Force!
The "Branles" have a doubleTime signature, and the whole thing wraps up with "Le Rossignol" Nightingale imitative piece on the Call of the Bird!

As for this attention seeking statement, I believe Reiner Torheit has said it all very well mit Klarheit!! Should be Reiner Klarheit!!

I do know some Purist Friends who believe it a sacrilege already to play Harpsichord Music on a Piano, totally different dynamics, velocities, and Tone Worlds; I heard some Rameau on Piano recently, it was played OK,but to return to the originally intended Instrument was a blissful Homecoming....I don't think I could handle Duphly,Balbastre even Corrette on Piano to the point of liking it more than that lovely silvery sparkle found in the finest, diverting Musique!
Of the Period! To stray deviate too far from the Original source is also like a betrayal to the Composer's intentions; one positive here IF it serves to shine a light Back onto the Original all well and good!