Please Rate My New Piano Concerto No.2 in D Minor Opus 2

[Joe Townley]

I've submitted it to some orchestras but they have told me that, while they like it personally, they cannot program it. Why is this, do you think? Is it not good?

For easy navigation of the concerto movements:

Exposition:
Main Theme :01-2:00 Transition 2:07-2:28 Subordinate Theme(a) 2:29-3:55 Subordinate Theme(b) 3:56-6:16
Development section is the most dramatic section 6:17-8:42
Recapitulation 8:43-10:14 Subordinate Theme(a) 10:15-11:34
Coda 11:35-12:47

SECOND MOVEMENT A-B-A
A 12:53-15:31
B 15:32-18:49 (Ghostly Waltz)
A 18:50-20:52

THIRD MOVEMENT
Intro 20:53-21:29
Main Theme 21:30-22:29
Transition 22:30-22:58
Section B 22:59-23:57
Recap Main Theme & Transition 23:58-25:47
Coda 25:48-end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GanFv...feature=relmfu

Any suggestions/input is greatly appreciated.

[Mambo]

Originally Posted by Joe Townley

I've submitted it to some orchestras but they have told me that, while they like it personally, they cannot program it. Why is this, do you think? Is it not good?

just curious Joe, how long did it take you to write this piece?
it was good, but there maybe was some kind of 'wow factor' that was not present. The piano part did not have as much of a solo
part , to display the pianist's virtuosity. It was more like part of the orchestra.
I am not an expert critic, and you can take my thoughts as only
one person's reaction to the piece.
There are so many piano concertos out there that this may be
a reason that some orchestras may not program it.
Some B.C. members may have a favorite piano concerto,
by Prokofiev, for instance, that they may want to compare your work to.
one piano concerto that i always enjoy is Darius Milhaud's
Piano Concerto No. 4 and i play it quite often.
Wish i could have found it on youtube to compare to yours, but here
is Milhaud's Piano Concerto No. 5, as something to contrast it to:

[Joe Townley]

Originally Posted by Mambo

just curious Joe, how long did it take you to write this piece?

To write out in my head, about three months. To write out on notation (software, naturally) about 6 months--commenced about August 2011; finished about February, 2012.

The 2-piano score for 1st and 3rd movements are available to peruse here:
http://www.scribd.com/_Joe_Townley

it was good, but there maybe was some kind of 'wow factor' that was not present. The piano part did not have as much of a solo
part , to display the pianist's virtuosity. It was more like part of the orchestra.

Thank you. I suppose I had two influences in the 1st movement, anyways: the Rach 2 in the opening, and the Brahms 1 in the Recap. The whole concerto is organic; thus in the 1st mov. the subordinate theme(a) is the Main Theme in lyric major mode; the transition material 2:07-2:28 is the intro for the 2nd mov; subordinate theme(b) makes appearances all through the 1st & 3rd mov's, predominately in the B section of the 3rd; subordinate Theme(a) appears at the end of the 3rd mov's big close, and the main theme of the 1st mov. and the subordinate theme(b) closes the concerto in the Coda; the main theme of the 3rd mov. makes an appearance in augmentation in the WW's at 7:35 of the development in the 1st mov.; the B section of the 2nd mov. is built on two themes stated separately in the piano and then later combined between, first, the oboes and bassoons, and then between the horns and the violins ala Borodin "In the Steppes". The theme in the 2nd mov,'s B section makes one last appearance in the coda. There are other instances too numerous to mention. I did try to get that "wow" factor to close the concerto with the BIG restatement of the Subordinate theme(a) and the fast, lively coda. Maybe I failed. One conductor said we didn't really need a Rach 5. I think that's where the failure of the piece lies.

Interesting that I offered up to ten thousand to a pianist, depending on their name and qualifications, to learn and perform it, but nobody took me up, even for that kind of money. One pro, Thomas Pandolfi, did express an interest in doing it (the conversation was with his agent) but she said he wanted to premiere it in Eastern Europe, which I could not fly to. So that was that.

I am not an expert critic, and you can take my thoughts as only
one person's reaction to the piece.
There are so many piano concertos out there that this may be
a reason that some orchestras may not program it.
Some B.C. members may have a favorite piano concerto,
by Prokofiev, for instance, that they may want to compare your work to.
one piano concerto that i always enjoy is Darius Milhaud's
Piano Concerto No. 4 and i play it quite often.
Wish i could have found it on youtube to compare to yours, but here
is Milhaud's Piano Concerto No. 5, as something to contrast it to:

I value anyone's opinion as long as it's constructive, which yours is. You have a very legitimate point. In fact, I believe that's where the concerto's failure lies: it's too derivative. But I felt trapped between a rock and a hard place. I could have written something ultra-modernistic like this (and this is not to put the composer down, just to use an example)

http://www.ashleywang.com/resources/Fissured+Words.mp3

but I felt everything being written today already sounds like this, not to mention my observance has been that this kind of music gets one performance and then is forgotten. The Milhaud Concerto is, of course, a masterpiece written by a genius composer and I have no hope of ever getting near something like that. I was blown away by the Opus (365 or thereabouts) Mine is only the second thing I've ever written so I'm a newbie of the first ranks.

[Mambo]

Originally Posted by Joe Townley

To write out in my head, about three months. To write out on notation (software, naturally) about 6 months-- In fact, I believe that's where the concerto's failure lies: it's too derivative. But I felt trapped between a rock and a hard place. I could have written something ultra-modernistic like this (and this is not to put the composer down, just to use an example)

http://www.ashleywang.com/resources/Fissured+Words.mp3

but I felt everything being written today already sounds like this, not to mention my observance has been that this kind of music gets one performance and then is forgotten. The Milhaud Concerto is, of course, a masterpiece written by a genius composer and I have no hope of ever getting near something like that. I was blown away by the Opus (365 or thereabouts) Mine is only the second thing I've ever written so I'm a newbie of the first ranks.

thanks Joe for the time scales on writing the piece.
i guess the first thing that struck me was how it sounded so much like a Romantic period piece, and as you said, derivative.
All composers are derivative, so it is not a bad thing.
i'll listen tomorrow to the Ashley Wang piece.
I think most composers write things that they would like to listen
to themselves, but not always is the case when finances come
into the picture, so they need to cater more to tastes other
than their own.
How a composer's style develops would be an interesting thread.
I have certain composers that i listen to more than others, but my
composing style (of what limited pieces i have written or improvised)
does not sound like any one of them in particular.
Original themes and 'raw talent' separate composers' qualities,
i feel, and you never know when you will hit upon that combination
that is IT.
good luck, Mambo

[Joe Townley]

You should put up some of your work, mambo. At any rate, thanks much and good luck to you too.

[Mambo]

Originally Posted by Joe Townley

You should put up some of your work, mambo. At any rate, thanks much and good luck to you too.

thanks, Joe. if i can figure out how to put some of my things on here, i may. i have enough trouble so far putting pictures on here.
I listened to the Ashley Wang piece and i liked it well enough that
i would give it more hearings.
Its quality is hard to determine; maybe time will tell. At least it used
all conventional instruments from what i heard.
I found this piano piece by Ashley Wang which i enjoyed -
the melodic parts sound very much like something i would write,
to give you an idea; but i usually add more harmonic texture, and prefer to use secondary (or more) melodies in contrapuntal fashion,
rather than simple chord progressions.

[some guy]

Originally Posted by Joe Townley

I could have written something ultra-modernistic like this (and this is not to put the composer down, just to use an example)

http://www.ashleywang.com/resources/Fissured+Words.mp3

but I felt everything being written today already sounds like this....

Hmmm. My guess is that you just don't get out enough. Everything being written today does not sound like this. Not even very much of it. And this is hardly "ultra-modernistic." It's very pretty. A tight, solid piece. But neither ultra modern nor typical.

I've listened to your piano concerto, too, and I think you are kidding yourself if you think you could do something like the Wang.

[Balthazar]

I'd like your stuff better if it sounded more like Ashley Wang.

Just sayin'.